Thursday, November 5, 2020

The Life and Legend of Otis T. Carr - Part 3: The Trial

 Continued from

The Life and Legend of Otis T. Carr, Part 2: Countdown to the Saucer Launch


The Trial of Otis T. Carr

The Oklahoma Securities Inquiry

In February 1959, C.E. Booth, chief securities investigator of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission regional office in Fort Worth, Texas, began a three-month investigation into OTC Enterprises. The investigation dug into activities across several states, and apparently Scott Berner, a reporter for WKY-TV in Oklahoma City caught wind of things and insisted the county attorney’s office prosecute Otis T. Carr for selling securities in the state without a license. Following the Frontier City fiasco, Oklahoma County attorney James W. Bill Berry revealed there was an investigation into securities violations by OTC Enterprises. The Daily Oklahoman, April 28, 1959, reported Berry would be delayed a week to allow Otis T. Carr’s attorney Hubert Gibson time to familiarize himself with the case. “Among those subpoenaed were Otis T. Carr, president of the firm; Norman Colton, publicist; Maj. [Wayne] Aho, 1400 N Drexel; Otto Hess, manager of Aircraftmen Inc., builder of the saucer; Charles O. Rhoades jr. reported seller of stock options; John A. Green, attorney for OTC, and James Burge, operator of Frontier City.”

Hubert Gibson advising Carr to take the 5th
WKY-TV News filmed the court hearing, and their YouTube channel hosts clips showing Carr, his attorney and OTC associates. WKY News: Monday, May 4, 1959 

OTC associates, believed to be: Wayne S. Aho, Charles O. Rhoades Jr., Lari Kendrick, and Norman E. Colton.

The Daily Oklahoman, May 5, 1959, reported on Carr’s hearing. Charles Gregory, assistant county attorney said the legal investigation was “primarily interested in the stock angle and not in the performance of the OTC-X1 (saucer).” Under questioning, "Carr invoked the fifth amendment when asked if OTC had issued a block of 21,000 shares to Jimmy Burge, Frontier City promoter. He also declined to state whether or not stock had been issued to Frank Buttram, oilman, or E. K. Gaylord, president of the Oklahoma Publishing Co." Wayne S. Aho, testified, but insisted he was not familiar with the finances of the company… He had no scientific experience but believed in Carr’s invention. “I’ve spent all of my time touring the country explaining the device. I have studied the principles of the outer space ship and know it will work.” Charles Rhoades Jr. identified himself as a test pilot for the OTC-X1, and testified he’d been selected to fly into outer space. As for the technology, “I know generally what will make it fly. There are a lot of things I don’t understand about it.” Rhoades admitted he’d never seen a Carr model fly. Lari Kendrick identified himself as the southwest representative of OTC Enterprises Inc., testifying, “I have no personal knowledge of the financial structure of the company. I know I have been getting some expense money.” When asked about his solvency, Carr said he had only $17.01 left in his bank account.

Oklahoma County Attorney James W. Bill Berry

WKY News: Tuesday, May 5, 1959“Footage of county attorney Bill Berry in an interview where he discusses the OTC Enterprises, Inc. investigation. Berry discusses OTC's technical violations of Oklahoma's security's law and the factors determining whether or not the state will file charges against Otis T. Carr.”

Bud Gosnell finally severed his ties and wrote Otis T. Carr a letter of resignation from OTC Enterprises, Inc. on May 11. At about the same time he sent his last letter to the SEC, which ended with the sentence, “These men have received and dissipated approximately three to four hundred thousand dollars and are, apparently, continuing to extract more money from the hard-headed, stupid and greedy investors, such as myself…” By that point, Gosnell had lost $10,000 investing in Carr.

The Daily Oklahoman, May 20, 1959

The United Press reported that Carr along with Norman Colton, Wayne Aho and Lari Kendrick, were charged with violating Oklahoma state securities regulations. The other three were not present, but Carr's attorney, Hubert Gibson, said Aho and Kendrick were still in Oklahoma and would surrender for their arraignment, but he said Colton was out of the state, "and we do not believe he will return." Carr entered a plea of not guilty and was released on $1,000 bond. The preliminary hearing for trial was set for June 12.

Miami Daily News-Record, May 20, 1959

Carr v. the SEC

While the Oklahoma case was looming, Carr still had to face the Securities and Exchange Commission. On May 28, the case was presented to Judge Ross Rizley, of the U.S. District Court. The SEC complaint charged that Otis T. Carr, Lari Kendrick (the Horizons Unlimited president) and Charles O. Rhoades had “engaged in practices in violation of the securities act of 1933...” and said since Nov. 18, 1955, Otis T. Carr had been selling securities, options and rights to purchase shares of OTC capital stock. SEC investigator C.E. Booth was able to document that Otis T. Carr had never registered to sell stock and estimated that OTC had raised at least $150,000 in Baltimore, then collected a total of $61,007 from more than 400 people between March 11, 1958 and February 7, 1959. They’d also used the U.S. mails to solicit the sale of stock.

The Daily Oklahoman, on May 29, 1959, revealed some of the most damning evidence against Carr in, “‘Flying Saucer’ Trio Is Ordered To Stop Sales” by Jim Reid. “C. E. Booth, Fort Worth, chief securities investigator of the SEC regional office… said an option receipt book confiscated from the company's Baltimore office shows that during the period March 11, 1958, to Feb. 7, 1959, more than 400 persons all over the country had paid a total of $61,007 to Carr for stock. Booth estimated that the OTC firm raised approximately $150,000 before coming to Oklahoma City… afterward, an additional sum of $34,997.38 was deposited at Liberty National Bank.”

During a prior questioning session with SEC investigators on May 12 and 13, Carr “took the fifth amendment 84 times... Aho took the fifth amendment eleven times...”

The Daily Oklahoman, on May 29, 1959

U.S, district Judge Rizley issued a temporary restraining order barring further sale of stock, and on the follow-up June 5, session, entered a permanent injunction halting OTC Enterprises, Inc. from selling stock. Otherwise, there was no penalty.

SEC News Digest, June 9, 1959


Back to Business

Meanwhile, Carr’s greatest success, the Frontier City saucer ride was completed and officially opened to the public. The Daily Oklahoman, June 7, 1959, story, “‘Saucer’ Takes Off.” reported, “The OTC-X1 spaceship ride, only one of its kind in the world went into operation this week at Frontier City.”

From the Frontier City, U.S.A. literature: 

"Space Ship OTC X-1

Passengers on the OTC X-1 will experience the fantastic sensation of a thrilling ride into space. Inventor Otis T. Carr, who plans to fly to the moon in a ship exactly like this one, explains to those aboard the 'wheel within a wheel'' principle that enables the ship to ride the earth’s magnetic waves. The OTC X-1 is firmly anchored so as to prevent its taking off into orbit unexpectedly".

The Daily Oklahoman, June 7, 1959

Tourist photo, circa 1960

On June 2, 1959, there was an event at the Penn-McKee Hotel in McKeesport, Pennsylvania, where Contactee author Dana Howard spoke to promote OTC Enterprises. FBI files state that the speaker “was unable to answer technical questions and that certain engineers who attended this meeting described the events which took place at this meeting as “electronic gobbledygook.” 

The Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph, June 11, 1959 ran a story on Carr’s operation that included reports of inquiries on it to the Better Business Bureau there and in Baltimore. It also included a description and photo of the OTC literature that they were selling from their office in the area.


Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph, June 11, 1959

The Pennsylvania OTC group arranged another meeting two weeks later to present the technical details, but since Carr was busy with legal matters, Norman Colton took his place. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, June 19, 1959, reported that nearly 50 scientists and engineers from the area turned out. They were shown a color movie of what was described as a “structural prototype” of the spacecraft, the amusement park ride. Colton told the group that he was not a scientist, but a “professional communicator” and that he could not answer all their questions because some of the OTC technology details were “secret.”

Investor Eugene Carini of Connecticut still believed, so reported the Manchester Evening Herald, June 19, 1959. He asserted Carr’s ship would fly and the stock troubles had been cleared up. Carini was setting up his own business based on Carr's concepts, “developing a power on the ‘free energy principle’” for home and industrial use, opening a shop with a friend in Bridgeport.


Carr v. the State of Oklahoma

The SEC injunction was finished, but Carr still faced charges from the state of Oklahoma. The Daily Oklahoman, June 6, 1959, reported that “Carr and two of his associates, Wayne Aho, public information director, and Lari Kendrick, sales director, are charged with selling stock in the space ship without registering with the Oklahoma securities commission. Art Minick, investigator for the county attorney’s office once estimated that Carr and his associates had sold Oklahomans more than $50,000 worth of the stock at $1 a share. Carr declined to testify when arraigned on the charge and was released on a $1,000 bond. His attorney Hubert Gibson said his client would ‘talk at the proper time.’”

Despite the legal woes, in July 1959, Carr sent out a news release stating that he was proceeding with his plans, building the Space Research Institute in Oklahoma, and launching his flying saucer powered by “antigravitation.” Meanwhile, in Baltimore, the OTC staff shut down the former headquarters on N. Calvert Street, leaving stacks of bills unpaid. The few remains of OTC Enterprises were fragmented. The United Press story from Aug. 8, 1959, reported that Carr and associates would be arraigned in Oklahoma City on Aug. 14, but that “Norman Colton of Baltimore, was listed as a fugitive... a warrant issued for his arrest.” In court, nothing changed and Carr remained free on bond, his trial set for November.


Aho's Plea to NASA

On Aug. 17, 1959, Wayne Aho appealed to the US government. Using the (outdated) OTC Enterprises, Inc. letterhead, he sent a letter to Senator Lyndon B. Johnson, the chairman of the US Senate Committee on National Aeronautical and Space Administration. Aho informed him of the “heroic effort being made by Otis T. Carr,” and asked for NASA’s support of OTC-X1 research and development. He included a picture of the prototype as proof of their progress. Maybe Aho dreamt that with NASA backing, Carr’s legal problems would vanish, but that didn’t happen.


Coral Lorenzen in APRO Bulletin, July 1959, said, "Considering the dubious talents of the Carr crowd, it is quite likely that should they be convicted of a violation, a hue and cry will go up from their followers; ‘Persecution,’ ‘suppression,’ etc., etc., ad infinitum.” She was right. Art Minick, Oklahoma County investigator, told True, “I interviewed ten to fifteen people who had invested $10 to $1,000 in the scheme and they were a little indignant when I asked them why they invested. They said they would like to put more in." Gray Barker sympathetically updated the OTC saga in his column in Flying Saucers magazine, portraying Carr as a victim, asking, “was this only a part of the persecution which always seems to arise when a method of providing cheap power is discovered, or allegedly discovered?”


The OTC-XI Goes on the Road

AFSCA World Report, Sept. Oct. 1959

Legend has it that soon after the Frontier City fiasco, “a fire of unknown origin destroyed the OTC-X1,” but that’s not true. Carr attended the Second Northern California Spacecraft Convention, Sept. 5-6, 1959, in Pleasanton, CA, where he made the first public display of the OTC-X1 prototype. Carr claimed he hoped to fly it at the convention, if he could get “the remote control system perfected on time.” Despite the criminal charges, Carr was still welcomed at flying saucer conventions and continued to promote his spaceflight project alongside Wayne Aho. The Sept. 1959 Spacecrafter reported, “The show got off to a slow start Sunday, but the tempo increased as the day progressed with Orfeo Angelucci, Reinhold Schmidt and Otis Carr putting it in full swing with messages of spiritual and material progress.”

Oakland Tribune, Sept. 6, 1959: Rev. Marke A. Norman and Dan Fry of Understanding Inc.

 

The Oklahoma Conviction

Carr’s one-day trial by jury in Oklahoma was presided over by District Judge Clarence M. Mills on Nov. 19, 1959. Although Carr had sold thousands of dollars’ worth of stock far and wide, he was tried for a single crime. “Specifically, Carr was charged with selling 100 shares of stock to Gurney G. Warnberg, Yukon, a professional pilot and railroader.” Warnberg identified Carr’s signature on a receipt and described the stock transaction with Lari Kendrick, who said he had authority to issue this stock and to sign it. “I said well you don't mean anything to me, I want Mr. Carr's signature on there and Lari left Dolores Restaurant and went across the street to the motel and came back again in a few minutes with the signature of Mr. Carr on there and I recognized it as I had seen it before in connection with this flying saucer. I had seen some literature about it."

The State's key witness, Gurney Warnberg.

Carr’s attorney Hubert Gibson claimed Warnberg‘s $410 was only a loan that would allow him to subsequently purchase stock options. Gibson said Warnberg wouldn’t seek a refund “because he wasn’t quite sure whether Carr was a genius or a damn fool.” As for the source of OTC revenues, Carr testified that rather from stock sales, they came from sale of the model plans and the space ride. Under cross-examination, Carr admitted that under the contract, he wouldn’t profit from the ride until the saucer was flown at Frontier City, but assured the court that, “We will fly the X1.” After the case was presented, it took the jury less than forty minutes to agree on a guilty verdict.

Bill Barry, Otis Carr and Hubert Gibson from an earlier court hearing.

Somehow, Carr’s associates were spared. Norman E. Colton was lying low to avoid the law, and there is no record of a trial or settlement for Aho or Kendrick. The company bore Carr’s name, but Colton was just as responsible for making it all happen. The authorities got their conviction of the perceived ringleader, so Colton escaped justice.

As Carr and his attorney were leaving the courtroom, there was some violence from an angry OTC investor, but not towards Carr. Outraged at the “persecution,” Cleve Bordner struck Scott Berner, who was filming the scene for WKY-TV. Bordner was subsequently charged with assault and battery.

The Daily Oklahoman, Nov. 20, 1959

Carr faced the possibility of three years in prison, but instead received a fine of $5,000, which was the maximum amount allowed under Oklahoma law. Carr’s attorney filed an appeal to avoid the $5,000 fine, and Carr was released on a $1,000 bond. Hoping to find greener pastures, Carr and his wife quietly moved to California. In Apple Valley, he was closer to the support system of the West Coast’s flying saucer community: Dan Fry’s Understanding, Inc, Gabe Green’s AFSCA, George Van Tassel’s Giant Rock, and the thriving Contactee convention scene. December 7th came and went without the long-promised Carr-Aho flight to the moon in the OTC-X1.

 

1960: A New beginning at Apple Valley as OTCA

Otis T. Carr’s supporters didn’t hear from him again until January 1, 1960. True magazine reported that Carr sent out a letter saying he was “making wonderful progress in spite of extreme pressures... This work... has brought us closer than most would suppose, to the free intercommunication between planets...” He enclosed a photostat of the page of the Official Gazette of the U.S. Patent office, November 10, 1959, showing the “Amusement Device,” stating it “now heads the list of hardware items that will whirl us toward full accomplishment and become the dynamic physical trademark of the Third Electrical Age…” Carr’s letter closed by saying that he would be glad to hear from his friends, and could be reached via “our Baltimore regional office at 9 West Redwood Street…” That was the new base for Norman E. Colton and Hildegarde W. Shea, who were still promoting OTC.


In California, Carr renewed some old acquaintances and made a few new ones. Ralph Ring turns up nowhere in period literature, but he surfaced around 2001 with some colorful stories claiming to be a pivotal Carr associate. The credible portion of Ring’s account is about how he attended a meeting of Daniel Fry’s Understanding, Inc. flying saucer group in late 1959 or early 1960, where Otis T. Carr was lecturing. “This was in Costa Mesa, California, where these 'Understanding' meetings were and that's where I met Carr.” He said he became interested and later joined Carr’s crew. “I met with Carr and his entourage… Dennis Rapolti, Norman Colton, Wayne Aho… about six of them... Shortly thereafter...we got down into the laboratory down in Hesperia, down in Apple Valley... we started setting up shop.”

Back east, Norman Colton represented the Carr cause as the guest for the debut episode of Long John Nebel’s (short-lived) half-hour television show. The Daily News, Feb. 18, 1960, reported, “[Nebel’s] guest, Norman Colton, exhibited a model of a saucer-shaped craft which he assured viewers could make a trip to the moon in five-and-a-half hours. Colton gave absolutely no proof that his craft would function and proved to be most evasive in his answers.” Nebel and his Party Line regular (science fiction author) Lester del Rey “tore his arguments to shreds.” 

Newspaper ad for the first episode, featuring Norman Colton, and an illustration of the OTC saucer.

Things were also happening in Pennsylvania with the Carr’s branch. FBI files show that a “representative of this organization caused a disturbance at the public library in Homestead by demanding that the library remove certain science books from the shelves and replace them with books supplied by OTC Enterprises. It was claimed that the library’s books were inaccurate and did not contain the true facts concerning atomic science and space travel.”

Richard Gehman interviewed Carr for True magazine.

On March 2, 1960, True magazine reporter Richard Gehman travelled to Apple Valley to interview Carr, but Otis told him he would not be able to see the new project. “My two engineers out here are violently opposed… declared the area off bounds to everybody… we can’t show you the physical equipment at all.” That included the OTC-X1 prototype, which Carr said was still under construction. “It’s more than a mock up. Parts of the material for the physical makeup are being purchased this very day.” Gehman left without seeing much more than Carr’s motel room. 

On April 12, 1960, Carr signed the lease for the old Osbrink building on Bear Valley Road. The enterprise was rechristened “Otis T. Carr and associates.” 


As for the OTC-X1 prototype from Oklahoma City, it wasn’t in the shop, instead it was being readied to mount on the billboard out front, the closest thing it ever achieved to flight.

The billboard erected at the plant stated: 

“OTC-X1 Spacecraft

Work scheduled to begin here June 1, 1960

(Prototype) This 6 ft model of the OTC-X1 built by Aircraftsmen, Inc of Oklahoma City. Improved full scale 21 ft and 45 ft models on order to be fabricated and tested here.

With new concepts in aerial transportation utilizing gravity, electro-magnetism, electro-motive force and electro-chemicals in new dynamics

Otis T. Carr and associates

Maryland, Delaware, Connecticut, Kansas, Oklahoma, California, Pennsylvania, Washington, Oregon, and other states.”

Carr and his plans were getting coverage in the local news, and he issued a press release stating the purpose of his new operations: "The plant will be used by Mr. Carr to further his developments in space research, which will include fabrication and assembly of space exhibition rides, such as were developed by him and associates in Oklahoma City…” It described their contract to construct a new saucer, "a 21-foot craft with a passenger capacity of four persons is on order for Frank Santora of Wilmington, Del.”

The San Bernardino County Sun, April 16, 1960

The Desert Valley News-Herald, May 5, 1960, featured a cover story written by Norman Evans Colton, “Carr Explains How the OTC-X1 Works.” Colton described the OTC-X1 "as being two tops that spin in opposite directions around a single axis... The entire circular-foil craft that is Mr. Carr’s most profound development…an assembly of only two major moving mechanical parts." More press coverage came in The San Bernardino County Sun, May 22, 1960, reporting that Carr “said last week that he intends to build space vehicles for amusement parks.” He planned “to begin work this summer on the OTC-X2...” but would not set a target date for the moon flight, since last time, that “ran into difficulties.”

On May 30, 1960, Carr held an open house and dedication ceremony for his “OTCA Space Research Center” facility in Apple Valley, with over 200 people present, and told them,“It is a treacherous misstatement of fact to say or infer that we are coming to California to raise money in stock sales.” He told the press that he would manufacture an “electro-magnetic powered” spacecraft that would reach the moon “with ease,” and that the principle was no more than two months from reality. Among Carr’s associates was Dennis Rapolti, dressed in a flight suit, who described himself as “director of sales engineering for the Pennsylvania organization OTC Enterprises, with headquarters in Pittsburgh." Carr also told the press, “We may have franchises to offer for the area.”

Dennis Rapolti, exclusive distributor for OTC
 in Pennsylvania, with Carr in Hesperia, CA.

Back in Oklahoma, the legal problem remained unsettled. The Daily Oklahoman, June 5, 1960, recapped Carr’s trial and verdict, and of the $5,000 fine, “Carr’s attorney here, Hubert Gibson, has since filed an appeal with the state court of criminal appeals, claiming his client is ‘practically destitute’ and is without funds to pay the fine. Similar cases are still pending in district court here against two of Carr’s cohorts - Wayne Aho and Lari Kendrick. And a felony warrant is out for another - Norman Colton.” Carr said his Apple Valley efforts were concentrated on three goals: the OTC-X1, developing more spaceship rides, and finally, a new 500-watt “power package” for industrial use.

Carr revised the company name and billboard to “OTCA Research,” but everything carried on much as before. He bought a full-page ad in an Apple Valley newspaper stating that the company was expanding, seeking to hire a sales and advertising manager and 1,000 scientists, engineers, and skilled workers. Work would begin on Sept. 15, 1960, on their first goal, 100 antigravity motors, and after that, a prototype 21 ft vessel powered by such an engine.

Riley Crabb of the BSRF, Borderlands, Vol. L, No. 2, 2nd quarter 1994

Eugene Carini still admired Carr and shared his technological dreams, but he thought OTC had collected and wasted over a million dollars, his $10,000 among them. He made a trip to visit Carr in Apple Valley, California, but couldn’t locate him, or even get inside the OTCA Research building. But he did see the billboard, which featured the famous OTC-X1 prototype he’d wired, now bolted to the sign as a prop. The saucer later vanished which led to rumors of its destruction or confiscation. Carini said that the prototype was later stolen from the billboard by someone he knew, taken to Dike, Iowa, where it ended up stored in a barn.

Sign minus saucer.

Carr’s Apple Valley endeavors were not picked up as national news, but the money lost in OTC stock sales was still making news. SEC chairman Edward N. Gadsby spoke before theAmerican Society of Corporate Secretaries in French Lick, Indiana, on June 7, 1960. Gadsby’s lecture was serious, but he opened and closed with jokes about investing in Carr’s moon flight.


Major magazines such as 
CosmopolitanHarper’s and Newsweek mentioned the SEC action taken against Otis T. Carr’s illegal stock sales. Changing Times: The Kiplinger Magazine, July 1960, also mentioned it in their cover story, “Don’t Fall For These Frauds and Gyps.”

Paul Coates talk show on KTTV in Los Angeles was called “Confidential File,” and he had a column for The Los Angeles Mirror News with the same name. Coates interviewed Carr for his show, and an article on it it was published as "Otis T. Carr All Set to Send Man to Moon" on June 28, 1960, with the filmed interview broadcast on July 7. Carr was hit by tough questions, grilled about the legal troubles and the money received from investors. Carr reluctantly estimated he’d collected $300,000, and that the Frontier City ride had cost $35,000 to build, the prototype $60,000. He admitted improperly selling stock but gave the excuse that he was no legal or financial expert, saying, “In certain matters, we erred.” Carr refused to comment on his attorney’s claim that he was destitute, but said, “As for the Oklahoma City conviction, that’s still being appealed.” Carr still insisted that the saucer could be built and flown to the moon if he had the money.


Carr v. the State of New York

New York State Attorney General Louis J. Lefkowitz issued a press release on Aug. 11, 1960, stating he was investigating the defrauding of New York state residents by Otis Carr and associates, who he characterized as, "space age charlatans” who had “victimized investors of more than $50,000 in the sale of stock in O.T.C. Enterprises, since 1958." Lefkowitz had “obtained an order requiring the promoters and designers of the alleged space ship to appear for questioning by members of his staff on September 26, 1960.” He noted that, “Often, the interested investors contacted the company after listening to Carr or Colton address a local club or after they appeared on a radio program.” Carr appeared on many shows, but none had a further reach than that of Long John Nebel.

New York Attorney General Louis J. Lefkowitz

Other than Otis T. Carr and Norman E. Colton, the NY attorney general named the following individuals and entities in his order: Utron Atomic Development Inc, Carrotto Dynamics Inc., Hildegarde Shea, Alex Andreotta, Melvin Mills, Frank Santora, Margaret Storm, and Peter Varlan. Unfortunately, Lefkowitz had no jurisdiction outside of New York, and no power to compel the OTC officers to appear. Possibly it was a bluff just intended to shut down their activity in New York. Nevertheless, it resulted in a lot of press.

 

The Last Conventions of Otis T. Carr and his Saucer

The third Annual Northern Space Craft Convention was held in Berkley, California, Aug. 27 - 28. Wayne Aho was the master of ceremonies, guests included: Otis T. Carr, Rev. Chief Standing Horse, Dan Fry of Understanding, Inc, and George King of the Aetherius Society.  The next weekend, Sept. 3 - 5, was the International Space Craft Project Convention, hosted by Reinhold O. Schmidt, at Rosamond, CA. The announced guest list included Otis T. Carr, Wayne Aho, Daniel Fry, and others. Both Schmidt and Carr were facing legal problems for their saucer-related investment schemes, but sadly there’s no record of their conversation.

Reinhold O. Schmidt and Carl Anderson, backed by host Karl Veidt.

The OTC brochure “Atoms For Peace” was translated as Atomer för fred in 1959, and it helped establish Carr as a saucer celebrity in Germany. The International UFO Congress in Wiesbaden, Germany, was held on Oct. 22 - 24, 1960, and they had invited Carr to speak, but he was unable to attend. Instead, two Contactees from the US were featured as guests, Reinhold O. Schmidt, and Carl Anderson. Anderson stood in for Carr, bringing along one of his small saucer models and lecturing on spaceship propulsion as an employee of OTCA Research. His talk was full of tall tales, and he said Carr’s antigravity engine generated a magnetic field that interfered with radio remote controls, causing three models to be lost in the sky. However, Anderson claimed that there had been a successful demonstration just the month before - during Reinhold Schmidt’s convention. "It was about three feet tall and the small round ship ran like a big top.” Rocket scientist Dr. Hermann Oberth was another guest, and he posed on stage with Carr’s model saucer for the crowd.

From UFO-NYT, the magazine of Scandinavian UFO Information (SUFOI), Feb. 1961“Report from Wiesbaden” and Journal für UFO-Forschung No. 12, 1980, “Der Otis T. Carr-Bluff” by Werner Walter.


In late December True magazine (cover dated Jan. 1961) featured a scathing exposé of Carr by Richard Gehman, "King of the Non-Flying Saucers." The article was a by-product of the trip by John Nebel’s Party Line to chronicle the events at the Oklahoma City non-launch. Panelist Ellery Lanier was originally writing a piece, with Sam Vandivert providing photographs, but it seems the article grew in scope and True editors assigned the story to Gehman instead. The article was revealing, particularly in its interviews with Bud Gosnell and Carr. Many supporters still believed in Carr and his dream even after the failure of the OTC-X1 prototype and trouble with the SEC. Even Margaret Storm and Gosnell, who had lost all faith in the man himself still believed in Carr’s concept of an antigravity engine. Storm regretted her involvement in OTC and said she was attempting to repay the $15,000 raised through her mailing list. The True article portrayed Carr as a fraud and a crackpot, and it exposed his flawed and criminal enterprises to a national audience.


1961: Otis T. Carr Sent to Jail

On Jan. 11, 1961, Carr was back before a judge at the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals. The original trial judgment was affirmed and Carr was ordered to pay the $5000 fine. See the court records, CARR v. STATE, 1961 OK CR 15, 359 P.2d 606., Case Number: A-12907, Decided: 01/11/1961, Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals”

The Miami News, March 11, 1961

In seemingly unrelated matters, Wayne Aho ran into some trouble of his own. After a series of saucer lectures at New Age churches in Florida, he was speaking in New York City. During his talk there, Aho was acting strangely and “went off onto a weird religious theme,” and subsequently went missing. When found on March 29, he was committed to the mental ward at Bellevue Hospital in New York for a short stay. (As reported in “Wayne Aho Falls Victim to the Men in White Coats,” Saucer News Non-scheduled Newsletter #13, June 13, 1961.)

Eleanor and Otis Carr with Elizabeth (Betty) Colton in Vashon, Washington, June 1961. Photo from J.B.M.

Carr abandoned Apple Valley and was laying low to avoid paying the fine or going to jail in Oklahoma for months, not even his attorney Hoot Gibson knew where to find him. In June Otis sent him a letter letting him know that he and Eleanor were staying in Vashon, near Seattle Washington. Gibson urgently wrote back saying Carr’s 90 day stay of execution had expired, so he must appear in court or face Federal charges for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. 

After seven months of being unable to pay his $5,000 fine, Otis T. Carr was locked up on Friday morning, July 14, 1961. The Daily Oklahoman, July 18, 1961, reported: “Carr, convicted of selling stock without project proper registration, was ordered jailed Friday morning by District Judge Clarence M. Mills.” Attorney Hubert Gibson said, “Carr doesn’t have the money to pay the fine. Under the judge’s ruling he would languish in the county jail for 5000 days at a dollar a day.” After the order, ”The pudgy inventor watched the district court maneuvers intently, then was led to the jail elevator by a deputy sheriff. He said he had no comment.”

The Daily Oklahoman, July 18, 1961


The Millennium Agency

With Otis T. Carr locked up, Norman E. Colton tried rebranding the merchandise. He moved to Ben Lomond, California, and on July 13, formed “The Millennium Agency,” registered as “a sales engineering consulting business.” The next week, he was advertising the free energy Carrotto Gravity Motor under a new name. On July 20, 1961, The Millennium Agency issued a press release “To all news editors of the world press and radio,” stating: “I, Norman Evans Colton, do hereby declare under oath that I have perfected a machine to draw electricity from the atmosphere without the use of any fuel. The machine is operated entirely by environmental gravitic forces. A newly constructed ‘Colton-Gravity-Electric-Engine’ has been installed at the Claremont Hotel in Berkeley, CA, where it may be seen, examined, evaluated and photographed.”

The Millennium Agency was either Norman Colton’s solo venture, or a stealthy continuation of OTC Enterprises without having a connection to Otis in the name to avoid the SEC’s prohibition of the company issuing securities and the investigation from New York. 

Colton’s press pitch made no mention of  Carr, but he later issued a “special confidential bulletin” claiming that: “On May 1st 1961 The Millennium Agency was assigned worldwide manufacturing and marketing rights to the discoveries and inventions of Otis T. Carr as committed by assignment and inherent right to OTC Enterprises Inc.” Colton said the Millennium Agency’s “own independent research and development,” had them “ready to design, manufacture, and start selling the first prototype production models of several new kinds of electric engines.” The brand was to be known as “Colton Gravity Electric Engines. They were ready to accept orders, and “Dealer and Distributor appointments are now being arranged. Manufacture and supply contracts are now being negotiated. Employment opportunities… Offices… are now being established in principal cities of the United States and Canada.” 

There was big one thing missing from the Millennium Agency hype: flying saucers.


Carr in Jail

Some modern articles sources report that Carr was “sentenced to a 14- year jail term,” but that’s false. Six months in the county jail is all he ever faced. “Carr in Jail Talks of Moon” by J. Nelson Taylor, from The Daily Oklahoman, Aug. 5, 1961, featured an interview while he was behind bars. “Otis T. Carr, 58, rotund ‘space craft’ inventor and promoter, still plans a trip to the moon when he gets out of county jail.” Carr was interviewed from the jail kitchen where he was peeling potatoes, and he blamed his troubles on others. 

Carr signed this photo to newsman Scott Berner

"I have been double-crossed two or three times.” He said, “I can take this six months in jail, but I will be on top again. The only thing I worry about is my wife. She is getting up in years like myself. She is living in Washington and, of course, worries.” Otis dropped the “we” affectation, at least while in jail. Sheriff Bob Turner explained the sentence: “Carr is really serving out a $5,000 fine at $1 a day. Under the law, however, after six months he may take a pauper’s oath and have the remainder of the fine suspended.”


Meanwhile, things were happening in California. Carr had hoped to place his saucer rides across the USA and in other countries, but his product was not unique. Walt Disney got into the space age amusement business with the "Flying Saucers" bumper car ride at Disneyland on August 6, 1961.

Norman Colton had set up shop in California, but he sent a letter to prospective Millennium Agency customers on Aug. 20, from Vancouver, B.C., Canada (where he was supposedly working with business partners). He claimed that his successful gravity engine demonstration in California had been witnessed by 600 people, yet word of it had been suppressed, “the press was told to stay away.” Colton said, “Nobody can stop a lot of independent individuals like ourselves as long as we are sincere and honest, and determined to pitch in…” He gave the name of Melvin Mills of New York, NY, as the contact for more information or to place orders for power plants. 

Colton was frequently moving, perhaps in flight from the authorities. On Sept. 22, a summons was published for his appearance to face charges in court by the County Bank of Santa Cruz, California. Later correspondence indicates he moved back to Baltimore. 


Dodging Bullets and Leaving Jail 

In 1960, three of the people involved in that Millennium Agency demonstration had been ordered to appear in New York court: Colton, Alex Andreotta, and Melvin Mills. The heat was still on. Attorney General Louis J. Lefkowitz described the promoters of OTC Enterprises Inc. as “space age charlatans.” The Associated Press story from Sept. 23, 1961, reported the NY State Supreme Court ordered the halt of OTC stock sales, a local reaffirming the SEC’s ruling. Lefkowitz had been unable to locate Norman Colton, and Carr was already in jail as a pauper in Oklahoma. After a year of fierce pursuit, nothing further came of the New York inquiry, probably abandoned since there was no way to recover any of the lost money.

In late 1961 the Millennium Agency sent out letters to promote the “Colton Milliplant Gravity Electric Engine Mark II,” saying its miraculous performance had been observed by thousands on its nationwide tour. Colton set up a demonstration of the free energy engine in New York, but the only data about it comes from George Emerson Fox, who corresponded with Carr associates off and on from 1971 to 1982. According to Fox’s Nov. 21, 1981, letter to Carr:

“I was with Mr.  Colton when he demonstrated his Milliplant at [Alex] Andreotta’s print shop. Later we had coffee with Mr. Depauw and possibly a representative of Seversky. A thrilling experience” The margin note by Fox indicates others in attendance: “Velikofsky, Seversky, De Pauw, Rideout, Babson!” That seems to be a misspelling of Immanuel Velikovsky, and the next a reference to Seversky Aircraft. We drew a blank on De Pauw, but the other names represent the Gravity Research Foundation leaders George Rideout and Roger Babson. The event seems to be attracted an all-star audience of pseudoscience and fringe theorists. Fox, didn’t say if he thought the machine worked, but there was not a negative tone in the short passage. 

In the months prior to the Milliplant demonstration, Norman Colton announced Melvin Mills of New York City as the Millennium Agency’s exclusive correspondence secretary. For whatever reason, shortly after the event, Colton disappeared. Fox told Carr that since then, “Mills had two changes of address. Chances are, that mail or inquiries and donations intended for Colton, or for you, were returned to the senders."

The FBI was still processing information on Carr in relation to the possibility of criminal charges. In a memo dated Sept. 25, 1961, it stated that in 1939, “Otis T. Carr, of New York City, tried to interest the Bureau in a fingerprint device... Examination of the device by a Bureau representative showed. that it was. a simple piece of prismatic glass… The ‘highly developed chemical liquid’ inside the prism was determined to be simple corn syrup.”

Like New York, the FBI ultimately decided that pursuing the case was of little value.

The Springfield News-Leader, Sept, 26, 1961, reported that Carr had two ways to get out of jail, clemency, or “Oklahoma law provides for release after six months imprisonment for a fine if the person can prove he has no estate of any kind to pay the fine.” Carr petitioned for release but was denied. See, Ex Parte Carr, Opinion No. A-13082.  September 27, 1961. 

At the end of the year, James W. Moseley reported on the incarceration of both Reinhold Schmidt, Otis T. Carr, and the freedom and activities of Norman Colton in "Report on Saucerers Recently and Currently in Confinement," Saucer News, Dec. 1961. It reported that Colton was demonstrating his free energy motor in NYC. That was the last the UFO world heard of Norman Evans Colton.

Saucer News, Dec. 1961

Carr was released on Wednesday morning, Jan. 17, 1962, reported as, “Saucer Promoter Carr Leaves City” in The Daily Oklahoman. “Under Oklahoma law a person cannot be incarcerated more than six months for failure to pay a fine, no matter what amount was assessed.” Carr was photographed but refused to talk to the press. Upon his release, “He left by air to visit his wife in Baltimore, Md., his hometown.”

The Daily Oklahoman Jan.18, 1962

Carr still had big plans, but after his time in jail, his days as a celebrity were over. He was seldom mentioned in the press, or even in contemporary literature, usually unfavorably. From Wall Street's Shady Side by Frank Cormier, 1962: “[A] measure of the mass craving for common stocks during the big bull market was the success of crackpots and con men who peddled shares in the most improbable and harebrained projects — until the government caught up with them. Between 1955 and 1959 Otis T. Carr of Baltimore persuaded an impressive number of his fellow citizens to invest in O.T.C. Enterprises, Inc… grounded permanently when S.E.C. obtained a federal court injunction to halt Carr's stock sales.” NICAP’s UFO Investigator, Dec/Jan. 1963-1964, featured an article on man-made saucers, “Disc Aircraft Inadequate to Explain UFOs.”  They mentioned Carr, saying, “A fanciful plan to build a spaceship to fly to the Moon with a totally unexplainable power system... Hoax.” 

The Daily Oklahoman, April 18, 1965

Oklahoma's Orbit, the weekend magazine of The Daily Oklahoman, April 18, 1965, carried a UFO article on the fifth anniversary of “Demo-Day.” It was by ufologist Hayden Hewes, “Flying Saucer Mystery Still Unsolved”, with a brief mention of Carr and his saucer: “April, 1959, Otis T. Carr attempted to launch an ‘electro-gravitational’ flying saucer. The OTC-Xl was six feet in diameter, four feet high, weighed about 600 pounds and cost over $25,000. It never got off the ground.”  

Look: Flying Saucers 1967

The 1967 Flying Saucers special from Look magazine featured a section of various “Man-Made Flying Saucers” over the years, and it included a photo of one of Carr’s OTC-X1 models, with a caption stating that after the government’s rejection, he had become discouraged with the project.


A New Beginning

As far as ufology is concerned, the Carr saga stops there. This was not the end of his story, however. After returning to Baltimore in 1962, Otis T. Carr moved to Pennsylvania and set up a new company. His Carr Gravity-Electrodynamic Systems was set to produce machines generating energy that “could be applied anywhere on this planet or in space.”

In the final chapter, we examine the previously unpublished files of Otis T. Carr, including the 1967 presentation of his free energy technology to the United States government. 

Continue reading

Part 4:

The Life and Legend of Otis T. Carr: The CG-ES Files




Thursday, October 22, 2020

The OTHER Air Force Captured Flying Saucer Retraction


UFOs are nothing more than misidentified conventional objects with a few hoaxes in the mix. That was the message of the notorious anti-saucer article in the April 30, 1949 issue of  The Saturday Evening Post, “What You Can Believe About Flying Saucers” by Sidney Shalett, written with the support and cooperation of the US Air Force. 

The article prompted an interesting response that led to an official investigation. In May Stewart Smith of Baltimore, Maryland, wrote to the Air Force saying he believed that inventor Jonathan E. Caldwell's company was making the flying saucers. The AF's Office of Special Investigations assigned the job to Captain Claudius Belk, and with the help of the Maryland State Police, he made a discovery in an old tobacco barn in Glen Burnie. The news broke on August 20, 1949.

The Air Force made the hasty statement that they'd discovered the origin of the flying saucers. The press went wild. After they had a chance to examine what was actually found, the Air Force issued a retraction, a bit like what had happened two years earlier with the Roswell debris.

An early photo of a Caldwell plane in pristine condition.

UFX is the site of ufologist Joel Carpenter, who passed away in 2014. It hosts Carpenter's 1996 article which is the definitive examination of the case, linked from the home page as, "Roswell: The Sequel." 

Flying Saucers Found In Maryland!
The Glen Burnie Incident: the Air Force's Second Officially Announced Flying Saucer Capture

Part 1: Flying Saucers Found In Maryland!

Part 2: Caldwell's Saucers 

Part 3: The OSI Discovery

Part 4: Glen Burnie's Aftermath 

In Joel Carpenter’s article, he likened the case to the reporting of the 1947 Roswell saucer story, and said:

“The Glen Burnie Incident offers a different perspective on the Air Force's handling of the flying saucer phenomenon circa 1949… The Glen Burnie fiasco also reveals that the problems the Air Force faced regarding flying saucer press relations remained unsolved. Twice within little more than two years senior Air Force officers were forced to issue strong statements denying hasty claims by lower levels that genuine flying saucers had been retrieved.”

That chaotic press coverage is perhaps the most interesting, particularly since we are still dealing with the same kind of problem today. We’ve collected a few examples of the sensational and often misleading newspaper headlines. 

The news coverage from Aug. 20:


An Air Force  spokesman stated: "It Is apparent that both ships would give the appearance of flying discs. They could well be the prototype of what have been reported as flying saucers."





A day later, the Air Force put on the brakes. On Aug. 21, the retraction:
"The Air Force states that the two experimental aircraft found near Baltimore, Md. yesterday have absolutely no connection with the reported phenomenon of flying saucers. Neither its configuration nor its reported characteristics of flight would qualify it to be related to the reports of flying saucers."




Even with the facts in hand, some newspapers continued to spread confusion. The same United Press  story as packaged by two different editors.


A few days late, one editorial tried to take it all in stride, as part of the cost of searching for the truth.



Jonathan E. Caldwell, the "missing" inventor had just moved from Maryland to Nevada. He was still developing aircraft, but he said none of his machines had anything to do with the flying saucers. 



The Project Sign Investigation


Project Blue Book files contain 14 pages of photos on the case and a 53-pages of documents on their investigation, including copies of some of the original newspaper stories. Failing to have a classification for "embarrassing mistake and public relations fiasco," the Air Force designated the case a hoax.

Project Sign: August 17, 1949, Glen Burnie, Maryland 





Thursday, October 8, 2020

The 1957 UFO Crash at Knoxville, Tennessee


In late 1956 into early 1957 there were a series of UFO reports near the atomic energy installation in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. The sightings came to an abrupt end when a flying saucer was seen to crash in flames. Although local authorities searched for the wreckage, they found nothing. News reporters had better luck.

Here's the story as reported in The Knoxville Journal, February 2, 1957.


 


The flying saucer turned out to be man-made, an experiment by seven high school students: Gene Bradburn, Ben Baker, Dewaine Speaks, D.C. Hunley, J.D. Seat, Boots Dew, and Johnny Henry. The newspaper coverage gives no indication the boys were perpetrating a hoax, but their balloon did cause a stir, at least on it's final flight. The saucer likely would have remained a mystery and become another UFO legend if the boys had not been persuaded to tell their story to the press.

As with so many of the most interesting UFO cases featured here at The Saucers That Time Forgot, Project Blue Book had no file on this incident.

Thursday, September 24, 2020

Updating UFO History


George M. Eberhart describes himself as a librarian, cryptozoologist, historian, researcher, and Fortean. He recently published something very noteworthy.

After an effort of many years, I have prepared a comprehensive timeline of UFO history that will be useful to UFO researchers and historians. "UFOs and Intelligence” is an up-to-date retrospective of UFO history (from Agobard of Lyons to the newly appointed US investigation agency UAPTF), intertwined with events in US and world history concerning military and civilian intelligence agencies and the cult of secrecy. It is now 679 pages and more than 555,000 words (including a substantial “Sources and Further Reading” appendix). 

Readers will discover or rediscover many events, people, and UFO cases they may not be familiar with. Some will find it useful for current or planned research projects. Military cases, those involving commercial aircraft, close encounters involving physical traces and other evidence, reports involving occupants or entities, and events surrounding military and sensitive nuclear sites are emphasized, but this timeline covers the full spectrum of UFO history, from contactee experiences to misidentifications of mundane phenomena and notorious hoaxes. Links to online sources are given, and links to biographical information are provided when available. 

A timeline like this allows us to view events from a different perspective, letting us make connections we might not otherwise see. It forces us to view the big picture, amid the grand flow of UFO cases, military security decisions, a vast swathe of personalities, and world history. 

Eberhart's timeline is hosted as a 679-page  PDF at the NICAP or CUFOS sites:




George Eberhart's timeline is a great  resource, and we're proud to see The Saucers That Time Forgot included among the many sources. We understand that George will be periodically revising the timeline, so this will be worth following for the additions and updates.

Speaking of Updates...

The work of Louis Taylor at Information Dispersal was the subject of our July, 16, 2020 posting, Ufology: Information Dispersal - Documents and Photos. Louis has kindly shared other historical documents and photographs for recent and forthcoming articles. He also provided a few rare items pertaining to some of our previous articles. The following six have been updated with:


An extremely rare flyer from the film distributor to UK theaters on the exhibition of The Flying Saucer Mystery has been added to: The First UFO Documentary: The Flying Saucer Mystery




An original UPI photo of the airframe and artist's conception of the: Princeton University's Flying Saucers for the US Army.



An original UP photo of witnesses John Black and John Van Allen from an early saucer contact case has been added to: Flying Saucer Ambush: Brush Creek, CA, 1953.



A flying saucer model photo from the 1959 National Models Exhibition in London: UFO Exploitation: Targeting Children.



The flying saucer and Martians of the UK's the Royal Air Force Maintenance Command for: UFOs: Real True Hoaxes of Advertising.

An original Buhl Planetarium flyer for the program "The Mystery of the Flying Saucers" has been added to:Astronomer Arthur L. Draper on The UFO Mystery


Thanks again to both George Eberhart and Louis Taylor for their work in preserving and sharing UFO history.


Thursday, September 10, 2020

UFO Exploitation: Targeting Children

When flying saucers became a fad in 1947, there were advertising stunts to exploit them from saucer-themed advertising stunts and products renamed to cash in, everything from sandwiches and sundaes, even cocktails. Children were a ready market for flying saucer products, since space toys were already popular based on the comic strip heroes Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. Once it was clear the saucer sensation wasn’t just a summer flash in the pan, manufacturers started cranking out products targeted at kids.

The first installment of The Saucers That Time Forgot featured a story on two boys who had a close encounter with a flying saucer. This “scrapbook” edition focuses on kids, saucers, and the merchandise that connects them.



In 1948, Walter Frederick Morrison and his partner Warren Franscioni marketed a plastic throwing disc called the “Flyin-Saucer.” In 1950 the licensed the popular Li’l Abner comic strip to boost sales.



Flying Saucer Spelling Game, was introduced in 1949, probably the first educational toy related to UFOs.

March 24, 1950 – the Walker Bank of Pittsburgh sold young savers a flying saucer bank.

July 23, 1950 - Sears Roebuck and Co. pitched Flying Saucer T-shirts to children.

Sept. 1950 - "My Weekly Reader" carried an amazing disclosure for kids by Tom Trott: "I am now allowed to tell you that some flying saucers are real. They belong to our Air Force. They will some day be a big help to our country."


1952 saw the debut of the coin-operated Flying Saucer ride from Meteor Machine Corp.

A Trip to Outer Space with Santa promotional comic book, the earliest known edition is 1952.

Lebanon Daily News (Pennsylvania), Dec. 22, 1952 – Firemen at the Ebenezer Fire Company made sure that Santa Claus gave all children attending the Christmas party a toy flying saucer.

Amarillo Globe-Times March 31, 1953 - Saucer Cub scout project by Michael Holik of Amarillo, Texas.

1953 Capt. Quick's Flying Saucers and Rocket Ships was a punch-out folio of ships and space toys.



Claire Leader, Aug. 4, 1954 - Japanese ban a dangerous flying saucer toy.

Waterloo Daily Courier (Iowa) June 13, 1954 - John Oberele in his flying saucer costume for the Youth Day parade in Waterloo.


 Lebanon Daily News (Pennsylvania), July 1954 - Cub Scouts' "Air Adventure" featured a flying saucer contest.

Here's few other from the 1950s, exact dates unknown:

Felix the Cat candy from Phoenix Candy Co. Inc.

Flying Saucers T-shirts to start your own flying saucer club. From McMurdy’s in Rochester, New York, circa 1954.

The Disneyland special edition Flyin' Saucer for Tomorrowland, circa 1955


Japanese metal toy, Flying Saucer Z-101

October 31, 1955 Kokomo Tribune carried the news of a Cub Scout troop winning the Halloween parade costume contest for their group effort as men from Mars and their flying saucer.




From 1959, a kid is awed by a model saucer, thanks to Louis Taylor of Information Dispersal for the original Wide World press photo. 
Caption: Rounded View: A close study of a flying saucer model is made by Roy Milani, 10, at the National Models Exhibition in London. The model was made by Dorabji Dhanjisha Bilimoria of Bombay, India, from details published in an American magazine. Bilimoria believes it is a model of an actual experimental craft of the U.S. Navy. [Date stamped from Wide World Photo] Feb. 14, 1960

The site imago images has a different picture of the scene with the caption:

Dec. 12, 1959 - Opening of the Model Engineer Exhibition. Model of Flying Saucer: Convinced that flying saucers actually exist - as experimental machines developed by the United States Navy - Dorabji Dhanjisha Bilimoria, of Bombay, director of the Bombay Society and Calcutta and a member of the Bombay Society of Model Engineering, has made a model of one for the New Horticultural Hall. Photo Shows 10-year old Roy Malani, of South Kensington, seen with model flying saucer type aircraft, at the Exhibition today. (Credit Image: ZUMZ/Keystone) 



For more fabulous saucer-themed items, see the extensive collections at
UFOPOP: Flying Saucers in Popular Culture

Frank Edwards: Making UFOs Newsworthy

Dr. J. Allen Hynek on UFO literature (in  The Edge of Reality , 1975): “If I were to recommend anything in the popular category, I would cho...