tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8574854931901227262.post5346724263686562881..comments2024-03-15T13:06:18.295-05:00Comments on The Saucers That Time Forgot: Flying Saucers from Montana: The Leonard Grayson StoryCurt Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13773941506205598439noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8574854931901227262.post-45057506693376239062023-02-20T13:36:49.158-06:002023-02-20T13:36:49.158-06:00As far as I'm aware, Grayson and Clarence D Le...As far as I'm aware, Grayson and Clarence D Lennon were the only ones that actually got so far as setting up their corporations and building full size versions of their vehicles for testing. That's the most frustrating thing, we know that Grayson got to the full scale testing stage but we don't really know how well he could navigate the vehicle. The most important event was when the engine was stolen. That was the end of practical testing and he had to go back to testing air compressed models but until then his prototype was more advanced than that stupid AVRO thing the army was testing over at Moffet Field or wherever. It's sad, we need to know how well this worked.<br /><br />Interesting side note: You mentioned that Grayson got his initial idea for his vehicle, 'While employed as a railroad agent telegrapher in 1954..' That's funny, wasn't Lyman Streeter also working as a telegrapher for the Santa Fe Railroad around the same time?Louis C Taylorhttps://independent.academia.edu/LouisTaylor6noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8574854931901227262.post-43971443951283394482023-02-20T13:36:01.091-06:002023-02-20T13:36:01.091-06:00Thx very much for posting this article. The Leona...Thx very much for posting this article. The Leonard Grayson story is central to the development of flying saucers using conventional propulsion in a sense that your article doesn't mention. There were many designs for turbine based flying saucers being proposed since the 1940s. As far as we know the majority of them never made it farther than patent applications or small model development. They can be divided into two categories; those that used counter-rotation and those whose central unit rotated in only one direction. Some of the ones that rotated in one direction people are familiar with like the model that Dr E W Kay built:<br /><br />Dr Eugene W Kay<br />Aero Digest Vol 60 #3 pp. 32, 129-130<br />St Louis Post-Dispatch Sunday Parade Section April 9, 1950 p. 2<br />Picture Magazine Vol 1 #1 p. 6<br /><br />Others people might not know like Clarence D Lennon's 'Lennocopter' <br /><br />Clarence D Lennon and the Lennocopter<br />https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2003/12/24/instead-of-whirling-away-his-50s-saucer-just-faded/<br />https://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/corporationsearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=EntityName&directionType=PreviousList&searchNameOrder=LENNOCOPTER%202000630&aggregateId=domp-200063-f909031c-8849-4101-8f5b-8053972384e1&searchTerm=LENNY%20CREDIT%2C%20INC.&listNameOrder=LENNIMARKSERVICES%20P050001058940<br /><br />His initial proposal in the early 1940s was for the wing part of the plane to rotate<br /><br />https://patents.google.com/patent/US3312425A/en<br /><br />In the 1960s he changed the design to an all-saucer model like the rest.<br /><br />https://patents.google.com/patent/US2432775<br /><br />But all of these craft had the same problem as the most well known, the AVRO Car. They all had problems with maneuverability because of the gyroscopic forces that the rotating component creates in the vehicle. That's why the second class of vehicles is so important. With counter-rotation you should be able to cancel them out. Beginning with Alexander Weygers and I guess Jonathan Caldwell in the 1940s people began designing discs that would use counter rotating blades or surfaces. The problem is, most never got much farther than patents:<br /><br />Patented Designs<br /><br /> Sanguinet H Benoist 1912: Counter-rotating fans on top of a platform<br /> UFO How-To Vol 1: 100 Years of UFO Patents pp. 12-18<br /> <br /> Bela P. Farkas 1966: Rotating wheel and counter rotating inner structure<br /> UFO How-To Vol 1: 100 Years of UFO Patents pp. 184-188<br /><br /> Jacob B Green 1966: Counter Rotating Blades<br /> https://patents.google.com/patent/US3395876A/en<br /><br /> Lester Rogers 1968: Rotating outer wheel and counter rotating inner propeller<br /> UFO How-To Vol 1: 100 Years of UFO Patents pp. 189-193<br /><br /> L E Mueller 1970: Rotating inner wheel and counter rotating outer surface<br /> High Energy Electrostatic Research Vol. 1: Antigravity and U.F.O.s pp. 323-325<br /><br />Of those that made it to the testing phase we don't have much information about their success:<br /><br />Experimentally constructed craft<br /> <br /> Jonathan Caldwell 1939: Disc Rotor Device (The Cheese box) Counter rotating top and bottom rim blades<br /> Strange Magazine #<br /> Flying Saucer Technology pp. 30-31<br /><br /> Alexander George Weygers 1943: Discopter Counter rotating blades<br /> Flying Saucer Technology p. 42<br /><br /> Wendell Welling: Counter rotating slotted surfaces<br /> Leap of Faith Chapter 13<br /> According to an account provided by his daughter, this prototype never got off the ground<br /> https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3228/1<br /> <br /> Mario Dardanelli 1963: Counter rotating blades<br /> Press photo<br /><br /> Frank Vukovic: Helicopter with propeller inside a disc shaped body<br /> The National Insider April 17, 1966 p. 11Louis C Taylorhttps://independent.academia.edu/LouisTaylor6noreply@blogger.com